shaila of hekker tzir - Chabad
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The forum is back online...for reference and research purposes.
Dear Readers and Members, The forum has been down for over 6 months because the domain name (www.stamforum.com) lapsed and it is no longer available to re purchase. Although this forum is now defunct (it has morphed into several whatsapp groups), I have had many requests to put it back online because it contains so much information (over 1,800 posts and thousands of comments in the discussions, on a wide range of topics related to STa"M). I have therefore put the forum back online at blogger, so the address is www.stamforum.blogspot.com. The forum lasted for a decade...not a bad effort! It was pretty popular back in the days before whatsapp and managed to receive over a million hits in it's short life. It was one of the only organised forums in the STa"M world and definitely the largest in it's heyday. I would like to thank all those who cobtributed over the years, particularly the early members who helped build it up. Thanking you all, Eli
A. The security door is not considered, it is batel to the main door.
ReplyDeleteB. If the garden is not used as a place for "diyur" then it is pashut that we don't consider heker tzir for an outside door, and it is chayov on the right side of the enterance to the house.
If this garden would be a chatzer [a place used actualy as part of the diyur] according to chabad minhag in this case we follow heker tzir.
C. How to consider heker tzir for a sliding door?
I think the place the door is standing [the inner part of the petach, or the outer part] decides which side is the enterance. If the sliding door is in the inner part, then the enterance is into the room, not to the garden.
R. Moshe. It seems to me like a big chiddush to say that you can determine Heker Tzir on a sliding door. Isn't the whole reason for heker tzir that we assume that you are entering the room that the door opens in to? This makes some sense when a door is swinging. As sliding door, on the other hand doesn't enter into any room, so why should it make that much difference if the door slides on the inside or the outside? Also, Many sliding doors can be opened from either side (especially the type common here in Eretz Yisrael).
DeleteThis is an even bigger chiddush when going according to minhag chabad where heker tzir is the number one priority before other factors like the flow of traffic or pnimi chitzoni etc.
For example, in my home I have a wooden sliding door that leads into my work room. There is no other way in or out of the room (other than a window). The door happens to be fixed on the inside of the room so it is not an issue according to your idea. But if it happened to be fixed on the outside, then, according to what you are saying, you would have to put the mezuzah on the left side as you enter (according to minhag Chabad).
It seems to me that that is a very big chiddush. Even if it was a swinging door, it is already going against all the poskim except chabad to put it on the left. Nevertheless, it doesn't bother me to do it in a case where we have a clear horaah from the Rebbeim. But if it was a sliding door, I would be very reluctant to go against all the poskim based on a svorah.
You may follow other opinions when speaking about an issue that indeed there isn't a hoyraa from the Rebbe, as a sliding door.
DeleteStill since asked this questions many times, I must try to help and explain what according to my understanding is the correct practice in this issue.
I will explain my svara -
the basic reasoning of "heker tzir" according to chabad minhag, is determining where is the chiyuv of mezuza, IE on which side [room]. The room that the door belongs, that is where the chiyuv applies.
In our case [sliding door] I think the determination to which side the door belongs, is the same rational as heker tzir, and that side [enterance] is the makom chiyuv.
I just looked it up in Sefer Chovas Hadar. It seems that he holds like how you are saying. In note 11 on page 64 he says that if the sliding part of a door is on one side of the wall, then it would be considered heker tzir. If it is inside the wall then there is no heker tzir. I am assuming that even in the case of sliding glass doors, where one pane is fixed and one moves, we consider the fixed one to be a wall, so the only case where you would have a sliding door without heker tzir is when the door actually slides into the wall.
DeleteSee Sheilas Yavat"z that the sliding door where the rail/track is the same as the tzir. On that side of the wall where the slide is placed is considered the "inner".
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1408&pgnum=95
I recall once reading that one of the previous Rebbes of Lubavitch refrained from entering one of his rooms by using the normal entrance door due to SAFEK of where to place the mezuzah in a somewhat similar and particular situation. As a solution, he opted for climbing through the WINDOW whenever he needed to access the room.
ReplyDeleteIs there any validity to this story? Does any one else remember reading this and where it is actually brought down?
That is a mistaken understanding of what is written here
Deletehttp://chabadlibrary.org/books/default.aspx?furl=/admur/ig/12/4227
and here
http://chabadlibrary.org/books/default.aspx?furl=/admur/ig/12/4237
Thank you!
Delete