Do Yekkis have a mesora for setuma in parshios?
Is anyone aware or have sources for the mesora for yekkis as to whether they should make the setuma in parshios according to the Rambam or Taz?
How about the Bais of Uleovdo?
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The forum is back online...for reference and research purposes.
Dear Readers and Members, The forum has been down for over 6 months because the domain name (www.stamforum.com) lapsed and it is no longer available to re purchase. Although this forum is now defunct (it has morphed into several whatsapp groups), I have had many requests to put it back online because it contains so much information (over 1,800 posts and thousands of comments in the discussions, on a wide range of topics related to STa"M). I have therefore put the forum back online at blogger, so the address is www.stamforum.blogspot.com. The forum lasted for a decade...not a bad effort! It was pretty popular back in the days before whatsapp and managed to receive over a million hits in it's short life. It was one of the only organised forums in the STa"M world and definitely the largest in it's heyday. I would like to thank all those who cobtributed over the years, particularly the early members who helped build it up. Thanking you all, Eli
In Parshios Tefillin, we hold like the Ta"z. This is how R' Binyomin Shlomo Hamburger has paskened.
ReplyDeleteThank you! I don't have his seforim and someone asked me today and in all these years it never came up nor did I think to look into it/that it would be different that non Chassidish/Yekki Ashkenazim, which is mostly like the Taz. The person told me that he was told when he bought tefillin that yekkis prefer the Rambam, which I'd never heard.
ReplyDeleteThat makes no sense, considering that we rarely hold like the Rambam lema'ase in Ashkenaz. We usually hold like the Ba'alei tosefos, so that makes even less sense, considering that they are often at odds with him.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAshkenazim only "rarely hold like the Rambam" when his opinion is opposed by the consensus of Ashkenazic authorities. We basically do hold like the Rambam in terms of צורת הפרשיות, but לכתחלה we try to make the parshiyos in a Sefer Torah in a way that fulfills the opinion of the Rosh as well. The question is if in Tefillin it is possible to make a Stumah that is good according to both Rambam and Rosh--the Taz thought that his way accomplishes this. However, if the Taz's suggestion does not work, everyone would agree that one should make the Parsha in Tefillin like the Rambam!
DeleteThe Mleches Shamayim (17:12) says that the minhag was like the Taz. One has to remember that until relatively recently the Ashkenazic practice was to make all the parshiyos of Tefillin Psuchos, so it's conceivable that different Poskim in Germany had different approaches to how to apply the "new" Psak that the last Parsha should be a Stumah.
ReplyDeleteWas the "Taz" they did the tight Taz as per the interpretation of the Mishnah Brurah, or the wider Taz spacing as was common in Europe before WW2 (The way it's described in the igres moshe)??
ReplyDeleteB"N, I'll send a she'eloh to R' Friedman, who forewards such questions to R' Hamburger.
DeleteThe Mleches Shamayim quotes the Pri Megadim להלכה (the source for the MB as well). It's available online here: http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=33743&st=&pgnum=110&hilite=
DeleteYankev, the Würzburger Rov (author of Meleches Shomayim) lived after the beginning of the reform, at a time when the Orthodox party was more concerned weith remaining fromm than maintaining our mesauroh. It is said by R' Shmuel Salant that when he davened in the Würzburger's schul, he noticed that the almemer (bimoh) was located in the front, so as to be mekarev the Reform community.
DeleteWhat does that have to do with anything? As Yankev said, there IS no real yekkishe minhag anymore, because based on the Shulchan Aruch who paskens like the Rambam who passels, the old minhag ashkenaz was to make them all psuchos (although it is very likely that they considered v'haya im shamoa' a stuma, see tshuvas maharshal) al pi the Tikkun Tfillin and others. However, since this original minhag has, to the best of my knowledge, become extinct, it seems difficult to claim either the rambam or taz as an authentic yekkishe minhag.
DeleteIt is certainly not true that the rabbis in Germany were unconcerned with Mesores Ashkenaz after the reform started! In certain communities they may have made minor changes for whatever reason, but in general they preserved the customs, and certainly in the many small towns where the whole community remained traditional. (The idea that the Würzburger Rav allowed the bimah in front only for "being mekarev the Reform" sounds like revisionism to me, but who knows.) My only point is, when researching Yekkishe approach to STaM in relatively recent times, the first place to look is the Mleches Shamayim--not that it is the be all and end all. Anyway, as Avi H. says, there is no sense to the idea that one can pronounce either Rambam and Taz definitively as the "authentic Yekkishe minhag." At most, one can speak of what German rabbis were telling the Sofrim to do after the old Ashkenazic minhag went out of style.
DeleteRE the bimoh: According to R' Salant, the Würzburger himself gave this rationale, see here: . I find it very unlikely that the p'sak I received, that of using the stumah of the Ta"z would go against our mesauroh if it was indeed to write all of the parshiaus as p'suchaus.
DeleteHere's what Rav Hamburger wrote in response to the below question.
ReplyDeleteIs it possible to receive information (and sources) as to the Ashkenaz mesorah for the spacing (parshah stumah) between the Shma and Vehaya Im parshios in tefillin? The Meleches Shamayim (17:12) says that the minhag was like the Taz.
אין בזה מסורת מוסכמת.
רוב הסופרים כתבו כהרמב"ם, מקצתם כהראש ובדורות האחרונים ממש התפשטה שיטת הט"ז.