A place for English speaking sofrim (scribes), magihim (examiners), rabbis and vendors of Stam (Torah, Tefillin and Mezuzah scrolls) from around the world to communicate, share ideas, ask questions and offer support and advice.
How do you know? did you show this image to Rav Moshe and he told you? When I do a she'elas Tinok I take a piece of paper and cut a tiny square and then show the child random Hehs, Kufs, Hehs, all randomly and repeated and then i show him the letter and then hes already used to the style of the sofer. I would not call this Heh a Kuf, but it for sure needs a tikkun to be gorer the extra bit. I assure you that if such a Heh was used for a kuf like in Ukeshartom, it woulad also be a pasul kuf. Therefore a she'elas tinok is the solution to define the letter. Am I off on this ?
Its shem hashem so to be gorer (scrape) is an issue, even if you hold its kosher and consequently it would not be chok tochus it would still be a potential issue of mechikas hashem...
"How do you know? did you show this image to Rav Moshe and he told you?"
Rav Moshe Weiner is the one who posted the image together with his psak that it's pasul. Hence, as I wrote, since he paskened it's pasul, there is no place for a shailas tinok.
"I would not call this Heh a Kuf, but it for sure needs a tikkun to be gorer the extra bit. I assure you that if such a Heh was used for a kuf like in Ukeshartom, it woulad also be a pasul kuf. Therefore a she'elas tinok is the solution to define the letter. Am I off on this ?"
Let's leave the psak halachah to the appropriate authorities. Rav Moshe paskened it's pasul. This is a serious shailah and I'd hope a sofer or magia who found such a shailah would know to ask a moreh horaah who's an expert in Stam and not pasken on their own, such as to decide without consultation with an expert, to ask a tinok.
Even if this was kosher, which I'm not suggesting, as R. Eli mentions it's in a Shem. Hence, if one would improve the letter, the option would be to add a little to the right leg.
With regards to the procedure of asking a tinok. There's no need to make a window to test if the child can identify Heis or Kufs. Furthermore, when clarifying if he can identify the letters in question, we must ask random letters as well to ensure that we are not leading him. Finally, when the actual letter would be shown to the tinok, in the case of a Hei-Kuf shaila, at most the words on the line prior to the word that contains the shaila would be covered and some hold nothing is covered. The questionable Hei would not be shown to the tinok from within a "window" (surrounding letters covered).
We all know that there is no ancient source that requires ink to be מן המותר בפיך . Possibly, as said here before, because in the olden days ink was always מן המותר בפיך and the question was never raised. It was probably self-evident. Nowadays, no decent Rav will approve an ink which is not מן המותר בפיך . Who was the first one to raise this question? Was it raised because of animal ingredients or because of non-kosher wine?
Thank you for commenting on my ink article. In your comment you stated: "Many poskim disagree... Many rishonim have clearly stated the use of our ingredients." Would you please be kind enough to teach us (so I can include it in the article) which Poskim and what exactly and where did they say that the עפצים וקנקנתום type of ink is preferable over good quality דיו עשן that does not fail? We are not interested in biased פילפולים , or in those who said that דיו עשן is not being used because it fails easily or because it was not known how to make good quality דיו עשן. Nor are we interested in those who said to use עפצים וקנקנתום וגומא ואין לשנות when they discussed specifically the עפצים וקנקנתום type of ink. We are interested to find out where and who (if any) said explicitly, based on sources, that the עפצים וקנקנתום type of ink is preferable over good quality דיו עשן , even when there is דיו עשן of good quality that does not ...
well, shouldn't we show it to a tinok?
ReplyDeleteRav Moshe holds it's pasul and hence a tinok is not called for.
ReplyDeleteHow do you know? did you show this image to Rav Moshe and he told you? When I do a she'elas Tinok I take a piece of paper and cut a tiny square and then show the child random Hehs, Kufs, Hehs, all randomly and repeated and then i show him the letter and then hes already used to the style of the sofer. I would not call this Heh a Kuf, but it for sure needs a tikkun to be gorer the extra bit. I assure you that if such a Heh was used for a kuf like in Ukeshartom, it woulad also be a pasul kuf. Therefore a she'elas tinok is the solution to define the letter. Am I off on this ?
DeleteIts shem hashem so to be gorer (scrape) is an issue, even if you hold its kosher and consequently it would not be chok tochus it would still be a potential issue of mechikas hashem...
Delete"How do you know? did you show this image to Rav Moshe and he told you?"
DeleteRav Moshe Weiner is the one who posted the image together with his psak that it's pasul. Hence, as I wrote, since he paskened it's pasul, there is no place for a shailas tinok.
"I would not call this Heh a Kuf, but it for sure needs a tikkun to be gorer the extra bit. I assure you that if such a Heh was used for a kuf like in Ukeshartom, it woulad also be a pasul kuf. Therefore a she'elas tinok is the solution to define the letter. Am I off on this ?"
ReplyDeleteLet's leave the psak halachah to the appropriate authorities. Rav Moshe paskened it's pasul. This is a serious shailah and I'd hope a sofer or magia who found such a shailah would know to ask a moreh horaah who's an expert in Stam and not pasken on their own, such as to decide without consultation with an expert, to ask a tinok.
Even if this was kosher, which I'm not suggesting, as R. Eli mentions it's in a Shem. Hence, if one would improve the letter, the option would be to add a little to the right leg.
With regards to the procedure of asking a tinok. There's no need to make a window to test if the child can identify Heis or Kufs. Furthermore, when clarifying if he can identify the letters in question, we must ask random letters as well to ensure that we are not leading him. Finally, when the actual letter would be shown to the tinok, in the case of a Hei-Kuf shaila, at most the words on the line prior to the word that contains the shaila would be covered and some hold nothing is covered. The questionable Hei would not be shown to the tinok from within a "window" (surrounding letters covered).