A place for English speaking sofrim (scribes), magihim (examiners), rabbis and vendors of Stam (Torah, Tefillin and Mezuzah scrolls) from around the world to communicate, share ideas, ask questions and offer support and advice.
I just spoke with Rav Friedlander on asking a tinok this shailah. He feels that since children are used to the printed Nun Sofit, in which the leg protrudes from the right corner that a tinok will likely call even a very long Zayin as a Zayin and therefore it's best for a moreh horaah to pasken and not ask a tinok. However, in my humble opinion, if the moreh horaah is besafek and one tests a child on a number of Zayins and Nun pshutas (mixed in with other random letters) in this ksav and he proves to know his letters then it would be best to ask him and if need be, an adult can be asked by covering the surrounding letters.
It is greatly preferable to use a tinok proficient in osiyos stam. Most kids proficient in osiyos stam will know the difference between a zayin and nun pshutah is the length of the regel only, as they are identical on the top....
We all know that there is no ancient source that requires ink to be מן המותר בפיך . Possibly, as said here before, because in the olden days ink was always מן המותר בפיך and the question was never raised. It was probably self-evident. Nowadays, no decent Rav will approve an ink which is not מן המותר בפיך . Who was the first one to raise this question? Was it raised because of animal ingredients or because of non-kosher wine?
Thank you for commenting on my ink article. In your comment you stated: "Many poskim disagree... Many rishonim have clearly stated the use of our ingredients." Would you please be kind enough to teach us (so I can include it in the article) which Poskim and what exactly and where did they say that the עפצים וקנקנתום type of ink is preferable over good quality דיו עשן that does not fail? We are not interested in biased פילפולים , or in those who said that דיו עשן is not being used because it fails easily or because it was not known how to make good quality דיו עשן. Nor are we interested in those who said to use עפצים וקנקנתום וגומא ואין לשנות when they discussed specifically the עפצים וקנקנתום type of ink. We are interested to find out where and who (if any) said explicitly, based on sources, that the עפצים וקנקנתום type of ink is preferable over good quality דיו עשן , even when there is דיו עשן of good quality that does not ...
I just spoke with Rav Friedlander on asking a tinok this shailah. He feels that since children are used to the printed Nun Sofit, in which the leg protrudes from the right corner that a tinok will likely call even a very long Zayin as a Zayin and therefore it's best for a moreh horaah to pasken and not ask a tinok. However, in my humble opinion, if the moreh horaah is besafek and one tests a child on a number of Zayins and Nun pshutas (mixed in with other random letters) in this ksav and he proves to know his letters then it would be best to ask him and if need be, an adult can be asked by covering the surrounding letters.
ReplyDeleteIt is greatly preferable to use a tinok proficient in osiyos stam. Most kids proficient in osiyos stam will know the difference between a zayin and nun pshutah is the length of the regel only, as they are identical on the top....
DeleteWe agree.
ReplyDeleteMISHMERES STAM holds posul.
ReplyDeletei will post rabbi kleins tshuva that tinok doesnt help